I absolutely love chickens. I dream of them day and night. When I can't sleep, I come to this website to read about other peoples chickens. I live in the suburbs of Maryland and chickens in this area are unheard of. Besides that, my spouse thinks I'm absolutely nuts. I don't know what's come over me. Since the September 11 incidents, I've realized that there are things I'd like to do in my life that I haven't done (always because of other people). One of the things I've always wanted to do is have chickens in the backyard. I don't care what people think now! Its what I want more than anything else. I know my spouse is only concerned with what other people will think, but my kids and I will love them. I've been reading this site, and many others for weeks now, thinking that maybe I just like to read about chickens and that I don't really WANT them. Well, I do! I can't think of anything else I'd like more than to have a few chickens in the backyard. Has anyone else dealt with an unrelenting spouse? Its definitely not worth disrupting the peace in my home (huuum?) but it sure would make me happy. Sorry folks, I think I just needed to vent and you're the only ones who understand. Thanks for listening. Oh, this is my first real post. Hi everybody!

Too bad they didn't have some sort of "virtual chicken farm" on the web just like they have with casinos! Anyway, maybe you can tell your spouse all the good things about raising chickens...such as that they don't take up much space, give you fresh eggs and meat, reduce stress (this has been clinically proven!), etc. You can also tell your spouse all the bad stuff about store-bought chickens...such as injected hormones and other chemicals vs. the fresh, healthy, organic eggs and meat your can get from your own small flock of chickens!

If you put up a well-insulated building and keep only hens (no roosters), they will make almost no noise. They will do their laying in the mornings and cackle when they finish the nest work, but other than that they make very little noise. If you bed them well and keep the bedding changed frequently, there is little or no odor. You would have to fence and build for predators, but there is very little in the way of a down side. Check local ordinances and zoning for restrictions. Good luck!

Yes, chickens don't make noise (unless you get some pesky leghorns). My barred rocks are right next to my house and you would never know it! No smell, no noise, only fresh eggs 24/7!

Hi, Citychickens, welcome to The Classroom. I wanted chickens for years and years before I actually came into the opportunity.
I can only tell you this: it is much better to have them than to want them! Good luck. Anny.

My husband wasn't thrilled with the chicken idea at first. I knew they were lots of fun because we had chickens in our suburban backyard when I was a kid. Didn't take him long to become a chicken freak! In fact we recently increased our flock from 6 to 20 at HIS demand!

Ask him what his objections are beyond worrying about what people will think. I find people are fascinated with our chickens. They love hearing the stories and seeing pictures. Total city dwellers who have never been within 10 feet of a live chicken seem to get a kick out of it! If he has other concerns, maybe we can help with the answers.

Good luck!
Susie

No offense, but why is your husband making the decision on whether or not you can own chickens? If you are the one willing to buy,feed, and care for them, it shouldn't matter what he thinks. I understand the "harmony" issue, but still. He should be understanding to your needs and wants.
As for what the neighbors think, as long as you live in an area that allows chickens, there should be no problem. Like the others said, there is no noise problem (with hens).
I had chickens in my old neighborhood that was very suburban and my chickens were I guess, illegal. But as there was no noise, there was never a problem. And my neighbors loved them and even chicken-sat for us when we were away.

Thanks everyone. I'm sure that the other problem is a lack of knowledge and more than a few misconceptions about chickens. My dh spent most of his youth on a family farm where the chickens roamed free over a number of acres. He envisions chickens scattered all over our very small suburban backyard. Its true, our yard is tiny, and our neighbors are very close, but I've talked to the neighbors and they've been very supportive. I'd planned to have an ark-type coop (nest above, yard below) or a small coop like this one which is supposed to hold up to 6 birds (hope the picture works). Does anyone else have just a few chickens in a small yard? A small 3x5 coop? I'd planned on barred rocks, RIR, Wyandottes and/or orpingtons, no more than 4 hens total. Are these birds okay? I really don't like the idea of bantams, I want large brown eggs, I need quiet, kid friendly birds that can live in a small confined area indefinitely. No place to forage.

Sunni, I understand your point of view, but its our way of showing respect for one another. "If we cant agree, its not meant to be." I'm hoping he'll come around though. Besides, if I go ahead with the chickens without his blessing, he may go ahead with the new truck he's been wanting. :-)

Thanks everyone. I'm sure that the other problem is a lack of knowledge and more than a few misconceptions about chickens. My dh spent most of his youth on a family farm where the chickens roamed free over a number of acres. He envisions chickens scattered all over our very small suburban backyard. Its true, our yard is tiny, and our neighbors are very close, but I've talked to the neighbors and they've been very supportive. I'd planned to have an ark-type coop (nest above, yard below) or a small coop like this one which is supposed to hold up to 6 birds (hope the picture works). Does anyone else have just a few chickens in a small yard? A small 3x5 coop? I'd planned on barred rocks, RIR, Wyandottes and/or orpingtons, no more than 4 hens total. Are these birds okay? I really don't like the idea of bantams, I want large brown eggs, I need quiet, kid friendly birds that can live in a small confined area indefinitely. No place to forage.

Sunni, I understand your point of view, but its our way of showing respect for one another. "If we cant agree, its not meant to be." I'm hoping he'll come around though. Besides, if I go ahead with the chickens without his blessing, he may go ahead with the new truck he's been wanting. :-)

Hi,
Just a little input about the coops. I built that coop in the picture a couple months ago. At the moment it is housing three of my 10 week old bantams. It's very practical and is attractive. I also have an ark in my yard. The ark is very good, except because of how it is shaped, the outside feet on both sides get wet when it rains, other than that there isn't a downside to an ark...not to me at least. For permant housing with the coop in the picture, I wouldn't put more than three hens in it. Just my opinion.
Daniel

Citychickens, what are the dimensions of your "very small suburban backyard. ...our yard is tiny, and our neighbors are very close...small yard"? Will you be able to let them out into the whole yard for maybe an hour (or half hour) each evening to eat a bit of grass and chase bugs and scratch a little in leaf litter or other mulch before they voluntarily retire at twilight? Or can you move the coop about to give them a small taste of such freedom?

Chickens were kept in pretty small quarters in really small back gardens in Europe and England, a coop and an attached small run. (did you see the PBS series on the Nineteenth Century House? I think that's close to the title. There was a segment on just such an arrangement.) I do have trouble with imagining even only three hens completely confined to such a small coop as pictured and not able to run about and get _some_ exercise. I do admire the design and execution of that coop, and wrote to tell the poster that I did. I think I would try to perch it on top of a fenced pen to give them a little more room and to raise the coop for easier access.

I am fortunate that my back yard in a subdivision is 67x100 feet, probably larger than found in many older-city lots. I first fenced off the back 25-30x100 feet as a run, which is where I am developing an urban orchard of sorts (all mulched with leaves and pine needles). At present I have a run along one side -- about 25x67. My ten hens can pretty well denude these areas of weeds and some desired plants (my daylilies in the orchard area are recovering). My tough St. Augustine grass doesn't survive their tenure for more than a few days. They really seem to enjoy having areas for their dust baths and for sunning and for escaping the sun and for scratching, and room to actually run and flap their wings occasionally.

By the way, my "fencing" is 3 foot 2x4" mesh welded-wire fencing, supported by 3-1/2 foot lengths of 3/8" rebar (iron concrete-reinforcement rods). This is easy to hook together, move and rearrange. The fence around my yard is 3-foot chain-link. A couple of my birds did get into the next yard once or twice, but have settled down with maturity and now stay in my yard and in their run. The three-foot chain-link fence did not prevent a back neighbor's dog from jumping into my yard and killing one chicken early on, but they did finally fence their yard so that their dog is now properly confined, according to law.

I had intended to keep only four or six, but haven't gotten around to selling the extra ones. I have four Australorps, four buff and two white Orpingtons, the survivors from an order of 25 hatchlings. I think the Australorps are my favorites and the ones I would keep if I sell some. They started laying first, are very serious about laying, and are pretty quiet, calm, and gentle. I like their dark eyes and the contrast of their red combs and wattles against their irridescent black feathering. I must say that the ladies can be somewhat rauccous and louder than I expected. But they are no competition noisewise for that aforementioned dog, which barks LOUDLY for hours a day at squirrels. One neighbor said he'd rather hear the chickens.

Be sure to check your city code and any subdivision rules about keeping "livestock" or chickens, and any requirements. You may never be challenged if your immediate neighbors are supportive, but you should be prepared for some "property-value conscious" bourgeois a house or two further down the street who may hear that you have chickens and take exception. I have a neighbor across the street who, when I first moved into my mother's house, complained of me to the city, left an ugly "anonymous" letter in my mailbox, and dressed me down one day in person--not for chickens which I hadn't yet thought to want, having no personal acquaintance with them at all, but for creating beds around all the isolated shrubs by mulching heavily with leaves collected from willing neighbors. These, he said, were going to attract vermin and all blow into his yard with the first north wind, and lower his property value. Actually, leaves from his magnolia tree are almost constantly in my yard. He eventually apologized to me, sort of nonspecifically, and he admitted that none of my leaf mulch had ever blown into his yard. And he has tolerated my current semingly permanent dirt pile on the driveway without any real comment [to me]. As I don't like the dirt pile there, either, I hope to get it all moved now that we are having cool weather and I won't dissolve into a blob of sweat and grease in the process...well, once the tendonitis in my heel subsides somewhat. I haven't heard what he thinks of my chickens. ;-) They are legal for me. (The main requirement is that their housing needs to be 25 feet from any neighboring dwellings.)

Anyhow, I describe this unfortunate reaction to show that there can be a rotten apple lurking about any vicinity and you ought to have your defenses marshalled or know the risks and how you'll cope. And make sure you can conform to municipal code requirements. Or not.

I have really enjoyed my ladies. I wish you well. (Please forgive the lengthy posting)

LaMartha, the entire area is about 24 x 40, but I only have an area of about 12' x 18' available for this purpose and part of that is covered with brick.

How do you find out about zoning laws?

The above coop design has a plywood floor, so the chickens will not be able to forage unless I release them. That is where my concerns begin. I don't have a fence around the backyard. We are backed to a lake and bike trail which is often used by people with dogs so I'm concerned for their safety if I let them out. I may be able to block off a small area of grass with chicken wire, but it would offer NO protection from predators. Also, I'm concerned about those neighbors 2 or 3 doors down who might not really like the idea of my having chickens. They might try to make things hard for us, especially if they see the birds.

The coop is 3'x8'. Adequate for 3 or 4 birds right? If not, maybe I should go with 3 or 4 bantams instead. I really just want whatever will be best for the chickens.

Great suggestion to raise the coop for easier access.

My husband wasn't too excited about the idea of raising chickens. He balked at the price of the coop I bought. He doesn't like them scratching in the lawn, even for a few minutes. He didn't like the rooster crowing. We got rid of loudest roosters. He doesn't complain about the eggs though, in fact the hens started laying when my daughter and I were away for a few days and he could barely contain himself when we got home. We have a rather small coop with a dirt floor. We only let them out for about an hour before dusk. (Ususally he's not home) He hasn't complained for a while. He likes all those eggs!
Good Luck
Janet

Hi Citychickens, guess I should add my two cents worth. Being as your yard isn't fenced in, I suggest one of those dog pens that are 6 ft tall chain link.

They are usually about 8x10 ft or so, and come with a built in gate. Your being in the city, you could put the black plastic netting used to cover fruit trees over the top of the pen. Then you could use just an old dog house on cinder blocks if necessary for your coop. Put in a roost and voila! instant pen and coop!

If you look in your paper's classified or a trading post, you can occasionally find people giving these pens away just to get rid of them. I'm also going to suggest ornamental bantams as the chickens you might be able to talk your husband into.

I have a blue cochin pullet that is gorgeous and has totally feathered feet. Don't have to worry about her feet getting cold in the winter! I also have a barred cochin and a silky and a trio of sultans. A silky would be darling in a small pen and coop. Folks might not even be sure they're looking at chickens if you had these types, especially the cochins and silkies.

As for eggs, bantams do start laying later (I think) than standard birds, and they do like to go broody. You can just not let them sit on any eggs if you don't want chicks. Oops, that's right, without a rooster they won't be fertile anyway! Also their eggs have more in them than you think. Instead of 2 regular eggs you can use 3 bantam and get about the same amount of usable egg, sometimes more, depending on the bird.

Go to 'feathersite' and look at some pics of the birds I mentioned and see what you think. Good luck trying to convince your husband! Let us know if he gave in. Oh, and welcome to "The Coop", best chicken website on the net, imho!

Note to Sunni.... we even live on a farm.... the lady of the house (not me) is a townie and is anti-rural (geez, what is that about... I mean, shoot, she lives in the country and wants to control every aspect of the farm...no animals.... no this-that...)

Her husband (my brother) and I have developed a commercial egg business with her kicking and screaming against it. Not only that, but I operate a number of breeding projects there (on the farm).

Unfortunately, I understand full well how it happens that 1/2 of a married couple wants animals and the other 1/2 doesn't and all the problems that brings.

No offense, Sunni, but surely you are not married or you are married to someone whom you can control easily. This issue causes us a lot of grief. I'm not sure my brother's marriage is going to survive because of our chickens and other farming issues. This is not such a simple issue as your post might suggest.

Citychickens, sounds like you're in a condo or townhouse, with neighbors cheek by jowl with you. And right next to water and, I think you said, some woods, you do need to design against predators. Where I live, in town, I have had oppossums and a racoon (at this late hour, I can't deal with which letters are doubled in those two animal names!), though not since I've gotten the chickens.

12 x 18, partially paved with brick. Well, you'd have to adjust for your budget and, very importantly, for your area's worst weather possibilities and the best sun/wind/rain orientation, but here's what popped into my mind. For one thing, you might need to reverse the roost-nest box, etc., positions, depending on where everything is located in relation to weather, exposure to neighbors, and your access. Make an enclosure on top of which you can mount the chicken coop pictured (more about the pictures in a moment) at, say, waist-to-shoulder height. In the enclosure, sort of a large sturdy box, with full length doors, you can store your feed etc. and/or provide a day-time "ground-floor" accessible shelter. These would go on the brick pave. Or, make this part storage box, part pen; in which case, litter can go on the brick in the pen section and be easily enough cleaned out and the brick would prevent tunneling predators. I'd use hardware cloth on such a pen section and the doors should be strong and well-secured against critters hungry for feed or chicken.

Then, budget allowing of course, for eye appeal, you could get 4 ready-made picket (or other style, to blend with house and coop, or at least not be too out of sync) fence sections--or lattice panels (which you'd have to frame) from Home Depot or where ever and line the inside of the fence with chicken wire. The chicken wire should be wider than the fencing is tall by at least a foot, enough to be able to bury the excess, angled down and out so predators can't easily dig under the fencing. I would attach the chicken wire by sandwiching it between the fencing rails and some nailed-on or screwed-on (not stapled) lathing, sort of the way screens were put on old-fashioned wooden window screens or screen doors. I think ready-made fencing sections come in 6-foot lengths, usually (lattice panels 4x8). So you could have a 6x6 or 6x12 or 12x12 fenced area, looking like it might be a small fenced in garden. Not an eyesore and screening the chickens from view when they are in it. Depending on the size and likelihood of winged or high-jumping/climbing predators, you might also put chicken wire across the top. My mental picture is of about 4-foot high fencing. I'm having trouble correlating picket fencing with the rather Scandanavian design of the coop, but hey, this is more or less a dream. I also haven't figured out how you might set this up so that you need only open the coop door for the ladies and let them make their own way (down a ladder-ramp) into this exercise yard and back again. A circular stairway from the coop down to the pen! <grin> If you can do 6-foot high fencing, with no gaps between boards, it would be simpler. If you're only going to let them out for a half hour or so, and if you will be out to supervise, you needn't go to so much trouble over predators where the exercise yard is concerned. But make secure their main enclosure/coop.

Well, that should give you some ideas. Take it away!

...An afterthought: shade? Sun directly on that coop will really make it hot in there, even with the screened openings. The two-story arrangement may help during the day, but it will still be hot in hot weather. (I recall that the designer of that coop is in the Netherlands / Holland, and isn't their weather on the cool and humid side?) Though I know hens have been kept in such small quarters, I just personally don't like the thought of chickens perpetually confined to 24 square feet and no chance to run or exercise or stretch or scratch or dust bathe or eat green stuff which they need. (If you mow your own grass and there are NO poisons, you can at least give them the fresh clippings, scattered on their litter to scratch in and eat.) These are innate behaviors that they need to express. I know they're not very brainy, but we are, and can you imagine a proportional confinement for yourself? And when they're bored and can't escape each other, they can do ugly things to each other. 24 square feet, less actually, since the roost area is part of that, is sufficient for sleeping quarters for four standard sized hens, and for occasional daytime confinement in bad weather, but awfully tight for continual confinement even for bantams I should think. And sufficient water? Where does it go? In the coop it will drip and wet the floor and any litter, and take up space.

As to the coop pictures, I visited that site, and know that the pictures were taken by the webpage creator, and believe that the coop design may also be his. Therefore he does have copyright on the pictures and possibly on the coop design. And, you do not. Copyright protects the right of the holder to make and to publish (for free or for profit) copies. So, while you might copy his pictures for your own files and recollection, you shouldn't post (publish) his pictures, nor send them to one or fifteen friends, acquaintances, or strangers (also publishing), unless he has given you express permission. You might include the url in your message, so people can go to his site to see all the pictures and plans and so forth. He has some posters for sale on another site, probably linked from his, each with a number of photographs of various chicken breeds, which you and others here might like to see. Easy rule of thumb where copyright is concerned, if you didn't create it you don't have rights to do anything with it publicly or for profit. Give credit where credit is due. Make his coop, photograph your version and post your own photos. Credit him for his design and give the address. I've kind of got a thing about copyright. It's only fair.

It's not exactly zoning that's the thing...well, sort of. It's city code, municipal laws, the stuff decided by your elected city council, plus subdivision or residential development charter restrictions that apply to all transfers of the property. Zoning is more whether areas are residential or commercial. There may be codes that apply to one or the other, or codes that apply to both, I think. Try calling your city government's main information number and asking the operator for the name and number of the office that handles city code. Maybe the city council secretary (possibly the only full time person where city councils are concerned). Maybe the city court. You want to see (for yourself) the city code concerning pets (don't say chickens). We have a city-parish law library open to the public, where I copied the pertinent pages. The clerk on duty at the time didn't know from city code, so I had to find it myself! Tell everybody along the way you're interested in local law regarding pets, so you can learn your responsibilities and rights in that regard. When you get the code book, it should be arranged by topics, pets should be in or near the sections regarding permissible "livestock". There should be a photocopy machine you can use, at a ridiculous price like our 75 cents a page. Copy the pets stuff, chickens or fowl, also rabbits, pigeons, etc. Our chicken section said chicken housing should be 25 feet from any dwelling. The rabbit section said 25 feet from neighboring dwellings. I figure this means (and I can make a good case that) the general idea is that the permitted livestock housing shouldn't bother neighbors, but I can be as bothered as I will tolerate, so my chicken hut (as I call it...or hen hut) is about 8 feet from my house, outside the kitchen-laundry-room door, and more than 25 feet from the nearest neighbor's house (dwelling). That's why I think you should look at all livestock sections, to see what the intent is. Subdivision/residential development restrictions are a bit more work to get. Could be a copy came with your purchase of the property. Or the real estate salesperson has or can get or can tell you where to get a copy. These are usually filed with the plat of the subdivision/development at the clerk of court (parish/county) office. The plat is the map showing the streets and lots. You can go to the clerk of court's office, property section and ask to see the Named Subdivision's property restrictions. High copy costs again. Not like Kinko's copy shop. But probably not very many pages. They may have to make them for you. Restrictions I've seen here usually deal with house styles/construction to insure a certain uniformity of house construction quality, setbacks from street and from property lines, type of roofs, but may also include restrictions on property usage (like no home offices sometimes, or no noisy home businesses, or no smelly ones, some of same things as may be in city code, maybe because the subdivision wasn't initially within city boundaries, etc., etc., etc.), and they can deal with pets and livestock. Anything the original developers wanted to include that's allowed by law.

Good luck!

P.S. I like the two story movable ark idea, but not the A-frame styling. If you do a movable ark, you can put 2x4 mesh welded wire fencing on the bottom, allowing them a little scratching, but protecting against larger tunneling predators just in case. And you could park it on the brick at night and on different sections of the rest of your 12x18 area during the day.

To Anonymous,
I am married but it's not a control thing. I guess I have a very understanding husband, as he is understanding of me. :) I'm all for keeping harmony in a marriage, but I'd hate to have the one I love stifle a dream of mine. (I mean dreams in general, not necessarily the original poster's chicken dream.) Also, I can understand if the dream in question is extremely expensive or dangerous, but if it's a simple dream, why not try it?

Hi CityChickens,
We have three hens in a suburban back yard. They have a moveable coop and access to a 25-foot square portion of our back yard. We were new to chickens -- the girls were chicks which needed a home after a preschool project, so we ended up with them kind of by accident.

Here are a couple of thoughts from a city slicker who didn't know anything about what we were taking on:

NOISE. Our Rhode Island Red is a big talker. Even though she's a hen, she has a lot to say when she sees people, who she associates with goodies. She also makes a lot of noise waiting for the nest, after she lays an egg, etc. Neighbors from two doors down have told us they hear our chickens...but they love it!

SPACE. Our entire lot that our house sits on is about 80 ft. deep and 100 ft. wide. As LAMartha did, bearing in mind the county codes, we put our coop about 10 ft. from the house and probably 35 ft. back from our neighbors' over the back fence. Not quite but nearly legal.

COOP SPACE: We had a sick hen a couple of months ago and had to separate it from the others while it had a chance to recover. We made her a separate pen and carried her into the (warmer) garage every night to sleep in her own box. Think about having a quarantine area in case one gets sick.

POOP: I had no idea anything could poop as much and as often as our girls. The dog - twice a day. The chickens - probably four times an hour, times three! We have special shoes for entering their yard, and when they go out onto the lawn, I'm out there cleaning up again because I don't want the kids to step in it. Go ahead and laugh, but I had no idea chickens produce so much poop! Good for the garden...I have to learn to compost!

VET CARE: Is very expensive and our city vet, although on the list of avian vets advertised elsewhere on this site, does not know a lot about chickens. I have much better luck talking to people on this site.

The above is kind of negative, but you might want to consider these things.

Here is the good stuff: my 6-year-old daughter loves the chickens, has named them, and they are instant entertainment for all people who come visit. My kids helped build the coop with their dad, and each painted a door. The kids collect the eggs each day. I know that the birds are living happy lives with a lot more freedom than their counterparts at the egg factory, and we are reaping the benefits by caring for them, learning about them, and eating their good eggs. They follow you like puppy dogs and are somehow endearing, clucking and scratching behind you as you clean up their yard. For us, it has been worth it!

A very many thanks to all who provided input. So much good advice! I think we're about two steps closer to making this a reality. The next step is the let my dear hubby read your posts. Hopefully, they will make the difference. Keep your fingers crossed.

Let us know if he decides to join the "multitudes" of happy poultry owners out here! (Folks who care for these birds are just special, good people!)(and chickens are great for kids, too!!) ;^}

Hi Citychickens! I started with 1 chicken when my daughter was 5--Beckybird--a buff sexlink. She then hatched a bunch of chicks with her kindergarten class and we got 6 more! Between one thing and another at one point we had over 100 chickens. We started out by keeping them in the basement in cages (rabbit cages) which were big enough for them to eat and walk around in a bit, but every day we had a small pen set out in the yard so they can do their chicken stuff. This might also be an option where you are. I would add that the use of either a 6 x 12 x 6 dog kennel is a wonderful idea and the fact that part of it is bricked is also good because it will make the clean up easier and keep out things that dig. I would also add a chickenwire top as well as chickens can and do fly. I could tell you a funny story of my ex chasing after a Blue Andulsian rooster. I wish I had a video of it. At any rate, my current live in is a dog person, will tolerate cats, but says he isn't much for chickens, but let me tell you, he is the first one to point out which chicken doesn't look right and even if he doesn't "do" chickens, he'll hold them and has even made one of our sexlinks into a spoiled housepet (don't even ask!). Roosters, although quite colorful, can be a royal pain, especially in a small yard. I would opt for the hens. Silkies can sit for hours in your lap as can cochins. As for the larger breeds, I enjoy the sexlinks which are strictly production types, Americanas because of their variety, decent dispositions and multicolored eggs, the rocks and RI Reds. Cochins are beautiful and quite docile as well. My all-time favorite chicken, other than Beckybird was a deep golden rooster by the name of Shogun who came when he was called, jumped up on my shoulder and gave me chicken kisses. Phoenix are noted for their long tail feathers in cocks. The hens can be quite lively, but once acclimated do make great pets, although the aforementioned lid on the chickenyard is a necessity. :) Laurie